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Conservative vs. Liberal / Tea Party vs. Modernism
Conservative vs. Liberal / Tea Party vs. Modernism
This is in response to a people trying to say the problems in America today have to do with a loss of Conservative and Religious basics. The position sounds so nice, but it lacks credibility to me. It further states that the Founding Fathers did so with a Judeo-Christian concept.
In sum, one person conjects: The establishment that conservatives mean to preserve is that of our founding, including American first principles like contribution to society, constitutionally-limited government, state sovereignty, independence from unnecessary assistance or control, common-sense in financial matters, fiscal responsibility, honesty, free speech and religious practice, the pursuit of happiness, the protection of human life, personal responsibility, and respect for the Judeo-Christian foundation that was and is woven into our nation's fabric.
My thoughts on this matter are these:
(1) This nation was founded with a "Deist" concept over "Judeo-Christian." Some colonies and communities were J-C like the Shakers / Puritans / etc. Every one that was founded to create a Theocracy (God-government) doomed miserably. When Joseph Smith founded the Mormon religion, things got to the point of bloody battles. The same was true over slavery. In fact, the Baptists in America split between Northern and Southern over that matter in mid-1800. You could be a good Southern Baptist and own slaves. Northern Baptists were Abolitionists. I am a degreed (Master of Divinity) Southern Baptist Ordained Minister. I know whereof I speak!
(2) You project that you are doing good with your "Conservative Agenda." That is not necessarily so!
I have watched the Southern Baptist Convention go into a nose dive of hate since the 50's when it started and got serious. In the 70's "The Battle for the Bible" ended with a split in the 1980's. It is but a reflection of American political struggles between "Conservative Republicans" and "Liberal Democrats."
In NC, the Baptist State Convention was at a point of split when I moved here from SC in 1986. Our great Seminary at Wake Forest (Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary [SEBTS]), was a 45-minute drive from me residing in Rocky Mount. I am a 1970 graduate of that school. In addition, I represented Ministers Life Insurance Company for the eastern 1/3 of NC. My specific territory was by zip code from Durham to Wilmington and all zips to the Outer Banks. I sold to and counseled with clergy of all Denominations. Many sales conferences turned into discussions of what was happening with Baptists / Methodists / Presbyterians / Church of Christ / etc. At that time and into today Conservatives were coalescing with Jerry Falwell and his buddy, Pat Robertson, with headquarters in Chesapeake, VA. They were calling themselves the "Moral Majority." Their purpose was a total mix of church and state with their conservative brand of Christianity as the ONLY way. They were a prime mover in the election of Ronald Reagan and both Bushes as President.
They hated Jimmy Carter and his like---my brand of "Baptist" at the time. President Carter taught, and still does, a Sunday School Class at his Baptist church in Plains, GA. He even found a way to get the Arabs and Israelis together at Camp David for a Peace Accord.
We were the "evil liberals" the conservatives targeted for destruction. SEBTS was the first school of higher education targeted by Conservatives now running the SBC. They had taken over using every trick in the book for voting outside the rules, but not quite enough for court action. Like the Pharisees, legalities are their bread-and-butter.
The SBC had operated in a state of trust which came to a bitter end. It was also one of the most democratic kinds of denominations in existence. It was outside the scope of honest religious leaders that such immoral tactics would be used to take over---BUT THEY DID! The "Conservative They" met in airports to devise plans / went all over Texas to deceive naive Baptists that "liberals were destroying their schools." They never could find a real "liberal" to fire, but the very word brought fears of similar kinds to yours
that the Judeo-Christian roots of America were being destroyed!
I was at SEBTS 1967-70 and NEVER FOUND A "LIBERAL" PROFESSOR THERE. I have other ultra-conservative classmates who thought they were all "liberals." What they really meant was, "I am being exposed to theology / philosophy / biblical studies which don't agree with my little Deep South country church conservative prejudices." Instead of growing in their Faith, they rebelled and drew in the wagons to defend the "new ideas" as "evil."
SEBTS is now producing indoctrination over education.
Like the Tea Party, they wanted to "return to the old days" --- despite people dying from common diseases like flu / polio / life-threatening pregnancies / and the "evil women" who got an abortion rather than bring a child into their life when it was totally unwanted or dangerous. Abortion was one of their primary issues. Add to that Homosexuality and Modern Bible Translations to find all the flame issues to divide and conquer the average Southern Baptists who trusted leaders to "tell the truth" --- whatever that might be. This SBC Seminary will not allow women to preach since "the Bible (Paul) says women should be silent in church."
BUT it was a Fundamentalist version of "truth" that was the only "truth" for them.
(3) The result of the hate and bitter fight today --- is a reduction in numbers participating and giving to the SBC. The Conservatives got what they wanted, but when the bus was stolen, they lost large giving churches and people to pay for the gas it took to run that stolen vehicle!
In a way, it was a Philosophy of Giving (taxation) and Organization that have helped destroy both the SBC and American economy. The Fundamentalists were obsessed with building Mega Churches just like America is promoting large corporations/rich citizens who pay little or no taxes.
In the same way the Republicans are obsessed with frustrating any Democratic attempt to help the public with programs paid by taxes. They are spiteful to keep the economy busted. There is no problem with waging expensive wars. The ministry to poor and outcast people is now neglected over paying large salaries to the Pastors and building large facilities used only on Sunday. I call it "The Church of the Big Show." They have big signs and buildings in every city.
No program or party is perfect but hate destroys anything it touches.
I used to enjoy being Baptist. The only criterion for belonging was to support missionaries. The SBC was based more on missions than on a restrictive fundamentalist theology. Now, all things start with the theological statement entitled "Baptist Faith and Message."
That statement has many logical holes in it, but no theological statement is perfect anyway. The problem is when the narrow statement gets interpreted to destroy and separate good people --- from varied theological perspectives --- who enjoyed living together and helping spread the Gospel of Jesus, the Christ.
The Good News about Jesus had to do with freedom and a new opportunity in life. So does the US Constitution. "All men created equal" was new and bold for the start of our experiment in government. Jesus spoke of love and forgiveness in a world of Jewish legalism and control.
I like Democracy. I relish the good years we have had under it. We are not perfect, but we sure have a great idea---if Conservatism does not destroy it! Such has destroyed and embarrassed the Southern Baptist Convention of my childhood---until a bunch of hard-headed Conservatives conspired to control it and then destroy that which they have taken over. In reality, they have CONSERVED NOTHING!
Two little children got a new puppy. Each declared it to be only theirs and theirs alone. They fought with the small pup between them as if it were a tug-of-war rope.
The puppy died in the struggle --- and now --- neither one has anything to love!!!!
Go Back
This is in response to a people trying to say the problems in America today have to do with a loss of Conservative and Religious basics. The position sounds so nice, but it lacks credibility to me. It further states that the Founding Fathers did so with a Judeo-Christian concept.
In sum, one person conjects: The establishment that conservatives mean to preserve is that of our founding, including American first principles like contribution to society, constitutionally-limited government, state sovereignty, independence from unnecessary assistance or control, common-sense in financial matters, fiscal responsibility, honesty, free speech and religious practice, the pursuit of happiness, the protection of human life, personal responsibility, and respect for the Judeo-Christian foundation that was and is woven into our nation's fabric.
My thoughts on this matter are these:
(1) This nation was founded with a "Deist" concept over "Judeo-Christian." Some colonies and communities were J-C like the Shakers / Puritans / etc. Every one that was founded to create a Theocracy (God-government) doomed miserably. When Joseph Smith founded the Mormon religion, things got to the point of bloody battles. The same was true over slavery. In fact, the Baptists in America split between Northern and Southern over that matter in mid-1800. You could be a good Southern Baptist and own slaves. Northern Baptists were Abolitionists. I am a degreed (Master of Divinity) Southern Baptist Ordained Minister. I know whereof I speak!
(2) You project that you are doing good with your "Conservative Agenda." That is not necessarily so!
I have watched the Southern Baptist Convention go into a nose dive of hate since the 50's when it started and got serious. In the 70's "The Battle for the Bible" ended with a split in the 1980's. It is but a reflection of American political struggles between "Conservative Republicans" and "Liberal Democrats."
In NC, the Baptist State Convention was at a point of split when I moved here from SC in 1986. Our great Seminary at Wake Forest (Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary [SEBTS]), was a 45-minute drive from me residing in Rocky Mount. I am a 1970 graduate of that school. In addition, I represented Ministers Life Insurance Company for the eastern 1/3 of NC. My specific territory was by zip code from Durham to Wilmington and all zips to the Outer Banks. I sold to and counseled with clergy of all Denominations. Many sales conferences turned into discussions of what was happening with Baptists / Methodists / Presbyterians / Church of Christ / etc. At that time and into today Conservatives were coalescing with Jerry Falwell and his buddy, Pat Robertson, with headquarters in Chesapeake, VA. They were calling themselves the "Moral Majority." Their purpose was a total mix of church and state with their conservative brand of Christianity as the ONLY way. They were a prime mover in the election of Ronald Reagan and both Bushes as President.
They hated Jimmy Carter and his like---my brand of "Baptist" at the time. President Carter taught, and still does, a Sunday School Class at his Baptist church in Plains, GA. He even found a way to get the Arabs and Israelis together at Camp David for a Peace Accord.
We were the "evil liberals" the conservatives targeted for destruction. SEBTS was the first school of higher education targeted by Conservatives now running the SBC. They had taken over using every trick in the book for voting outside the rules, but not quite enough for court action. Like the Pharisees, legalities are their bread-and-butter.
The SBC had operated in a state of trust which came to a bitter end. It was also one of the most democratic kinds of denominations in existence. It was outside the scope of honest religious leaders that such immoral tactics would be used to take over---BUT THEY DID! The "Conservative They" met in airports to devise plans / went all over Texas to deceive naive Baptists that "liberals were destroying their schools." They never could find a real "liberal" to fire, but the very word brought fears of similar kinds to yours
that the Judeo-Christian roots of America were being destroyed!
I was at SEBTS 1967-70 and NEVER FOUND A "LIBERAL" PROFESSOR THERE. I have other ultra-conservative classmates who thought they were all "liberals." What they really meant was, "I am being exposed to theology / philosophy / biblical studies which don't agree with my little Deep South country church conservative prejudices." Instead of growing in their Faith, they rebelled and drew in the wagons to defend the "new ideas" as "evil."
SEBTS is now producing indoctrination over education.
Like the Tea Party, they wanted to "return to the old days" --- despite people dying from common diseases like flu / polio / life-threatening pregnancies / and the "evil women" who got an abortion rather than bring a child into their life when it was totally unwanted or dangerous. Abortion was one of their primary issues. Add to that Homosexuality and Modern Bible Translations to find all the flame issues to divide and conquer the average Southern Baptists who trusted leaders to "tell the truth" --- whatever that might be. This SBC Seminary will not allow women to preach since "the Bible (Paul) says women should be silent in church."
BUT it was a Fundamentalist version of "truth" that was the only "truth" for them.
(3) The result of the hate and bitter fight today --- is a reduction in numbers participating and giving to the SBC. The Conservatives got what they wanted, but when the bus was stolen, they lost large giving churches and people to pay for the gas it took to run that stolen vehicle!
In a way, it was a Philosophy of Giving (taxation) and Organization that have helped destroy both the SBC and American economy. The Fundamentalists were obsessed with building Mega Churches just like America is promoting large corporations/rich citizens who pay little or no taxes.
In the same way the Republicans are obsessed with frustrating any Democratic attempt to help the public with programs paid by taxes. They are spiteful to keep the economy busted. There is no problem with waging expensive wars. The ministry to poor and outcast people is now neglected over paying large salaries to the Pastors and building large facilities used only on Sunday. I call it "The Church of the Big Show." They have big signs and buildings in every city.
No program or party is perfect but hate destroys anything it touches.
I used to enjoy being Baptist. The only criterion for belonging was to support missionaries. The SBC was based more on missions than on a restrictive fundamentalist theology. Now, all things start with the theological statement entitled "Baptist Faith and Message."
That statement has many logical holes in it, but no theological statement is perfect anyway. The problem is when the narrow statement gets interpreted to destroy and separate good people --- from varied theological perspectives --- who enjoyed living together and helping spread the Gospel of Jesus, the Christ.
The Good News about Jesus had to do with freedom and a new opportunity in life. So does the US Constitution. "All men created equal" was new and bold for the start of our experiment in government. Jesus spoke of love and forgiveness in a world of Jewish legalism and control.
I like Democracy. I relish the good years we have had under it. We are not perfect, but we sure have a great idea---if Conservatism does not destroy it! Such has destroyed and embarrassed the Southern Baptist Convention of my childhood---until a bunch of hard-headed Conservatives conspired to control it and then destroy that which they have taken over. In reality, they have CONSERVED NOTHING!
Two little children got a new puppy. Each declared it to be only theirs and theirs alone. They fought with the small pup between them as if it were a tug-of-war rope.
The puppy died in the struggle --- and now --- neither one has anything to love!!!!
| Congressman Walter Jones takes action | Words with the Publisher, Op-Ed & Politics | The Beaufort County Committee for Constitutional Studies Presents the Miracle of America |
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