Comments for The Hypocrisy, and Unconstitutionality, of Affirmative Action Policies at Ivy League Universities | Eastern North Carolina Now

Alright that is it. I am repackaging this exchange in at least one or more posts.

Commented: Sunday, November 26th, 2017 @ 1:53 pm By: Stan Deatherage

Bobby, I agree. You are right, and I thank you for clarifying and pointing out where I should have chosen my words more carefully.

Did you really grow up in an era of school segregation? I can't even imagine. I come from north Jersey and I believe my state integrated even before Brown v. Board of Education mandated it.

I wanted to share something that I learned about 2 years ago. We all know about segregationists in our history - about the evil, pernicious designs of the Southern Democrats to keep the races separated, and even the Republicans up north who passed a series of "Black Laws" all designed to make the North unappealing and unwelcome to freed blacks. And now we know that Abraham Lincoln himself favored such Black Laws and publicly admitted that the races could never exist together and that "one race is superior and the other is inferior and I'm happy to be a member of the former" (something like that). He indeed ran on a platform to exclude blacks from the western territories, to further a party objective of having western expansion for whites only (excluding slavery from the western territories was not about trying to eliminate slavery as it was about excluding blacks). We have been taught that it was always whites that wanted segregation, and in probably 99% of cases that was true. But I remember a case in Virginia where schools were segregated based on geography only and NOT on any segregation law. There was pressure into integrating the schools, so the "white school" sent letters to the families of black students encouraging them to transfer to that school (although requiring a longer transportation time, etc). No one responded. They tried to force the integration but the black families were happy with the status quo; they had no issue. The school itself was not inferior and they were happy going to school with those who lived close to them. The government got involved and forced the integration. This began the era of "forced integration" and busing to achieve a social plan - to base schools on racial quotas. Around this same time, Mohammed Ali (before becoming the icon we revere him as) was trying to champion segregation, as a way to keep the black race pure. Even Martin Luther King Jr. referred to him as the "Champion of Segregation." I had never heard of this side of Mohammed Ali before. [reference: www.bostonglobe.com ]

Commented: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 @ 6:26 pm By: Diane Rufino

I used to be the college counselor at an un-Catholic school in Greenville (John Paul II Catholic School. Catholic in name only; the worst people I've ever met; the worst culture of cheating I've ever seen). When the topic of college applications would come up, the white students would say to the black and Hispanic students that they were lucky because they get breaks to get into college. They would joke "We're the only ones that have to rely on our grades." Now, let's look at what that tells us about what our teens are taught (subtly) and what they likely understand. First, they KNOW for a fact that minorities are accepted into colleges with far less grades and credentials than whites. How do they know this? Because they know which of their fellow students have excellent grades and which do not. And then they see that students with lower grades and lower GPAs get into schools when they, with higher grades, do not. Second, they are informed by colleges that they have "a diverse student body" and that they "respect and foster diversity" on their campuses. So, they put two-and-two together and understand that one way they get their diverse student body is by lowering their standards for certain minorities. Thirdly, they must certainly be questioning WHY schools have to lower admissions standards for minorities.That's when they realize that they do so because if they didn't, minorities would not be able to compete equally, on a grade and GPA-basis (merit basis), with white applicants. Then they might also realize that since the school has an actual "policy" for minority applicants, it must be based on something data-driven. There must be enough data to show that minorities score lower on college entrance exams, and have lower GPAs, and hence they need a "handicap" in the admissions review process. Translation: Minorities are not as academically successful or do not perform as successfully as others. Stereotype established for today's teens. (By the way, in all my years in education, both as a student, with my children going thru the public education system, and as a teacher and counselor, everyone understood that Asians and Indians are naturally smarter and would have non problem getting into the colleges of their choice. My third daughter is a mini genius. She took all AP classes in high school and kept an extremely high GPA. I asked her if there was a chance she would graduate at the top of her class and she laughed at me. She said: "Are you kidding. I have Asians in my class." What she was saying is that even as well as she was doing, Asian students just do much better academically. (My daughter graduated 4th in her class, out of 370).

This same daughter was "wait-listed" at NC State when she applied. It blew my mind. As a high school student, she was the most intelligent kid I knew. She ran circles around most other students from her school. How could State not have accepted her outright? Yet a Hispanic student that I know (and taught) was accepted. The difference between my daughter and this other girl was a stark as night and day. On a spectrum of intelligence and ability, my daughter would be at one end (say, Ivy League material) while the other girl was community college material. It was THAT stark of a contrast. And not only in sheer ability either. My daughter is, and has always been, an avid learner, studying all the time and pushing herself. The other girl did everything she could to get out of class and to be responsible for less work (And John Paul II Catholic school administration was all-too-happy to comply). When my daughter found out that this girl was accepted to State, she said: "Mom, that's not fair." As it turns out, my daughter was ultimately accepted; as students who were accepted declined in order to go to other schools, a spot opened up for her. Within one year, my daughter did so outstandingly well that she was invited into the prestigious Mechanical Engineering school. She is one of only a few female students there who can do a certain kind of programming. She took additional courses over the summer (that's how driven she is) and now she is ahead of other students of her grade. Where is the fairness of Affirmative Action programs? Why should spots be given to some simply because of skin color while those who have greater skills and ability be pushed aside?

Again, here is what really bothers me about the Affirmative Action policies at colleges and universities. Students and even adults see a black or Hispanic college student and even at least momentarily, they conclude that most likely, the only way they were accepted was because the school either added additional "handicap" points to their entrance exams or they had lower acceptance criteria for them. If I were a member of either minority group and I knew that college admissions policies had created that presumption, I would feel pretty low about myself. Even if a member of either minority group did have high grades and SAT/ACT scores, and many do, the first impression on others is that they did not. And it is NOT because of any racism or any mal-intentioned heart; it is because of what society and government has re-enforced on our youth. It is a stereotype that they learn by government policies.

This really rubs me the wrong way. So then you have President Obama and Michele Obama and even Hillary Clinton who, for political reasons, tell Americans (including minorities who are often all-too-willing to hear how they continue to be "victims") that every white person is inherently racist, whether they know it or not.. that they are incapable of being color-blind. HOW DARE THEY SAY THAT. The government is racist, their policies are racist, and they are pushing silent or "soft" racism on all of us. And Democrats are the biggest racists of all - calling for policies that give minorities a leg up (by assuming they cannot compete equally or do for themselves what others are capable of). Affirmative Action is a Democratic policy. These policies are in so many areas of public life, it is astounding, including medical schools and law enforcement. There are cases upon cases where minority applicants to police forces win to have standards lowered so that they can be admitted. All they have to do is challenge a particular police force, for example, by saying that there aren't enough "Hispanics" hired. If there aren't enough Hispanics on the force, then it clearly must be that they have discriminatory hiring practices or discriminatory admissions policies to its police academies, they say. Then they look at those practices and policies, which are often designed to weed out unqualified candidates for ones who are qualified for the various tasks that officers must be responsible for. Then they will claim that the practices and policies themselves are inherently racist. So, what these departments end up doing, to either avoid further litigation or to comply with the Civil Rights Act, is to re-do their "exams" and practices and dumb them down tremendously. Often, the standard is this: If Hispanic applicants can't score well, then it MUST be that the tests are racist and mean to prevent Hispanics from doing well.

Sadly, minorities use "racism" to dumb down standards so they can do better, so in a sense, while they accuse others of racism, they love to benefit from it and probably, in some way, need it to continue. Either way, society teaches us that lower standards are associated with minorities.

Commented: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 @ 2:23 pm By: Diane Rufino

Bobby Tony, nothing you write is poorly worded - "You are my No. 1 Guy".

Racism is an industry for Liberals. When I see them in action, I know these pathetic humans for what they are.

Commented: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 @ 10:26 am By: Stan Deatherage

B.T., for me, Diane is more right than you ... but, I am the eternal optimist.

You think that "Racism is in the human heart"; Diane believes that it is reinforced by government bureaucracy. I tend to agree with both of you, but, Diane is more right.

Government and committed Liberals reinforce racism by the very nature of the way they do business - the threat of Racism builds jobs for Liberals - it adds layers of needless attention to an issue that is not that important in real terms. Identity politics is at the core of what it means to be a mindless Liberal.

If Racism is one's overarching issue /problem, one is either a full bore idiot, or has a multitude of other issues born by that individual's innate stupidity.

In fact, the dysfunctional Education Industry is a far greater issue than Racism, and a far many other issues.

Bobby Tony, the Black G.I. that saved your life in Vietnam in 1968 is why I am an optimist, and why I know Racism is mostly a fabricated issue. You, or even me, would have done that same thing to save a Brother in Arms life.

I never fought in battle, but, I have had many Black teammates, Black Coaches, and even though I am now a devout Conservative /Libertarian, I consider these Black teammates to still my friends, and my Black coaches, especially Dave Smith (now deceased), will always deserve my complete respect.

Commented: Saturday, November 25th, 2017 @ 10:12 am By: Stan Deatherage

Bobby, Alex, Stan, aside from the fairness and constitutional problems with Affirmative Action (at this point in time, 2017, over 60 years after the end of Jim Crow and the fight for true equality), I am most offended by the underlying stereotypes that the government and education continues to perpetuate in their policies. Now, I'm of the era when we were taught by our parents and to be honest, we just took it for granted, that everyone is the same in every way. Skin color means absolutely nothing, except that it makes all the more unique in who were are and what we look like. So, when I wrote the article, I had to look up what the "invidious" stereotypes that the Supreme Court sought to strike down in its decisions to strike down the various Jim Crow schemes ("separate but equal" - although often not equal). "Invidious" stereotypes are especially insulting stereotypes - the ones that degrade a particular group of people. For African-Americans, there are apparently many stereotypes but the one I recognized is the "Uncle Tom" stereotype, which it just so happens, is the term that Democratic blacks like to refer to Republican blacks. I suppose it is used to refer to a black person who has turned his back on fellow blacks ("Democratic blacks - those showing allegiance to the Democratic Party which they believe is sympathetic to them and gives them things). The "Uncle Tom" stereotype presents black men who are unintelligent, simple-minded, and subdued, but simultaneously content and happy with their inferior situation. Look at the "unintelligent" part. What do Affirmative Action policies of Ivy League universities and other universities which automatically add a huge number of extra, UN-EARNED, points to their scores say about their view of an African-American applicant? It says that because they do not score as high as whites, and certainly not as high as Asians, they need a different set of standards to be able to compete. Built into the policy is an ACCEPTANCE of the Uncle Tom stereotype. It is INSULTING and DEGRADING and makes my stomach turn. I absolutely hate when people think less of people than they should, and especially when they impute that to a whole group - or race - of people. Now, schools may be using this policy because there is actual data out there to show that blacks consistently perform that much lower than whites and Asians in academics. And to be honest, I know that high school data, broken down by race and gender, does in fact, show that blacks and Hispanics do score much less. But that is just in my area in NC and in Florida too. I saw the statistics. But standards are standards. A person doesn't deserve to be benefited in life because of the color of their skin and he definitely should not be HARMED because of it.

Commented: Friday, November 24th, 2017 @ 2:24 pm By: Diane Rufino

I once heard a lecture on Affirmitive Action where the speaker proposed that the best affirmitive action you can take is to get off your a$$ and do something; anything. As simplistic as it sounded at the time the speaker went on to discuss that it was not the system that was responsible for results, it was the participant.

He ended with the quote.
"It's the set of the sail, not the direction of the wind that determines your destination!"

Or as the old farmer used to say.

"Every tub rest on it\s own bottom."

I agree with both Stan and Alex. I want my next surgery if needed to be performed buy a rich, happy doctor, who could have quit working years ago but loves his job so much he would do it for free. (OK I made up that part about free)

Commented: Friday, November 24th, 2017 @ 10:23 am By: Bobby Tony

My question to one of these Affirmative Action Mental Midgets...
You have a very serious form of brain cancer. You need a very serious operation to remove your rapidly growing tumor. You are given a choice of a brain surgeon who was affirmatively pulled into brain surgery school and, while there, he struggled as he tried to get through his courses. Or would you like to be operated on by the surgeon who was always first in all his academic efforts before and during his time in brain surgery school. Think carefully. Who would you pick?

Commented: Friday, November 24th, 2017 @ 8:03 am By: Alex J. Ortolano